 |
German Siege Artillery, Supply length, Supply cost |
|
Defensive Supply, Weather, etc... |
|
Playing Solitaire |
|
The French moving north |
|
Misprinted counters |
|
Attacking across rivers |
|
Belgian Retreat |
Dave Nighswonger
The German siege artillery
seems a little too far to the rear at the beginning of the game. Terrain,
low movement allowance, and ZOC prevented me from bombarding Liege until August
4th. Was this intended? It does seem a little too late. Perhaps if some of
the rivers were negated by rail lines then it would be faster. This isn't
the case however.
On the mobilization completion schedule, please make the following corrections: Turn 1 - German - AustroHungarian 4-3 Siege Artillery (NOT Turn 2). Turn 3 -Belgian - HQ also completes mobilization, French - should read 'any 4-4 unit in or adjacent to Belfort' (it says 6-4).
Under movement, the rules state that movement allowance is reduced due to
supply length. However, I don't find any reference to this in the supply rules.
Special Scenario Rules (additions and clarifications): Belgian units on turn 3 must move into Antwerp proper (hex 1604) or to a hex of the Antwerp fortress complex NORTH of the Schelde (hex 1603). Belgian units attacked prior to completing mobilization (which for most is the entente movement phase of the 3rd turn) must retreat. And the following entente movement phase, they must move to hex(es) containing other Belgian unit(s) that have not yet been attacked. Entente units CANNOT use column movement the turn that they complete mobilization. German artillery (only) can use Rail Movement during the 4th and 5th August turns. Artillery units do not pay ZOC entry cost if they are moving into a hex already containing a friendly non-artillery combat unit. If artillery alone is attacking a hex, add 1 to the attack die roll for each hexside thru which the artillery is attacking. Units that retreat from a fortress DO NOT counterattack unless they have lost strength points (this only happens when, by the current rules, the fortress is eliminated in the attack). Note that the fortress would still counterattack at full strength while the combat units retreat out of it. Movement is NOT reduced by supply line length (this only affects combat).
The combat rules are very unique and I find the system accurately reflects
battle at this time in history. The use of multipliers in defense and mandatory
retreats are excellent. I do have a question regarding strength point elimination
priority. It is outlined clearly but the following paragraph notation is somewhat
conflicting indicating that all units must be flipped to their reverse sides
before any further reduction occurs. So, which takes priority? I played with
the first but found my cavalry always eliminated quickly and my infantry ground
down without any artillery loss. I think perhaps after playing that the second
paragraph should take precedence. Could you clarify?
Clarifications - You
have to reduce units of the highest 'priority' to backside strength first.
Then reduce away at those units until the type is gone. Then repeat this process
for the next 'priority'. This means that you should RARELY attack with cavalry.
It takes double supply for the defense because while an attacker is half moving,
half shooting; the defender is constantly shooting. I will discuss this more
at a later time (its an interesting story how this rule was figured out).
The attacker DOES have to supply whenever attacking. Only Serbian units get
to attack without supply.
Attacking a large fortress is problematic. Due to the tremendous losses that
would have been sustained, I declined to assault Liege and bypassed it. I
used my siege guns to reduce the place but this was a very time consuming
affair. Coupled with the above mentioned delay in getting the guns forward,
I am now approaching the end of August and Liege still has twenty some factors.
Any hints would be appreciated.
See Dave's Tip #1
Can you update us on plans
for future releases. Also, as most of the WWI games
mentioned concerned the campaigns in 1914, will follow on games or modules
add
units that were later engaged?
Next
game should be Tannenberg. Sorry about low number of strength reduction markers.
Couldn't afford to use more counter sheets just for this. The situation should
be solved by using counters from additional scenarios. Additional scenarios
will use same maps but later times (Verdun/Somme and 1918). There is also,
believe it or not, a war long scenario that has economic (read that as 'unit
production') aspects.
Back To Top
Schlieffen
Dave Schroeder
Defensive supply - At the start of the war, the Germans had 3000 rounds per gun, the French, 2000. Both were OUT of ammunition by the end of the period that TSP covers. The only way this happened in play testing was to double the expenditure for defense. It also happens that this continues to be true later in the war. My belief is that the larger expenditure could be the result of neighboring units also firing artillery into the area of the attack, as well as the defender firing at larger volumes. It may not make logical sense on the surface, but the rule works for the game and the series.
Weather rules: I am trying to only include rules with each game that are needed. For TSP and some of the other early games, the weather did not have a significant effect on the outcome (I know a lot of you won't agree with this), so I left out the weather rules. They will eventually be in later games. Just so you know, the weather does not have the effect on WW1 operations that you might think. It is barely noticeable in the WW1 games.
Game Publishing: I need to build up a loyal following before I can release a lot of the games at once. DG is currently fronting a lot of the production money, so it is their call. Once enough games are out, maybe I can accelerate things.
Playtesting: I did some work last weekend. Most of the discussion and came over proposed WW2 supply rules. It was decided to go with a generic 'supply point' representing the 'bottleneck' type of supply, rather than go with ammo supply points and separate fuel supply points. However, once supply is put into a Headquarter type (army, navy, airforce), it can only be used by that particular service (no use of airforce bombs by the army). The other discussions were on the use of airpower, I had thought of using 3/8 inch counters for air units. This was not liked. I think I can get all the info onto the regular sized counters, but the plane silhouette is going to be small. Air units have a ground component. The ground components can be kept in offmap displays for airbases.
Release date: I have seen that DG has put out on their website that Galicia will be released later than Tannenberg. This is different from what they just told me a couple of weeks ago. I have sent them a message to ask what the deal is. Sadly, their schedule changes more than I like to think about.
German marginal victory: To my chagrin, a lot of German players go for marginal victory from the onset. Shame on them, they should not be considered true Germans. I should have put a rule in about the Germans needing to get 3 hexes from Paris at some point (or words to that effect) or they don't get a marginal victory.
Casualties: For the period of TSP the French had 854,000 casualties, the Germans 677k, the British 85k. For the whole war on the West Front, the French had 4.97M, the Germans 5.38M, the British 2.76M. The period of TSP is only exceeded by 1918 in casualties (and that was the period March to November).
French: The French are as supply constrained as the Germans. They should only attack with Plan 17 and with one or two other specific, well thought out, efforts. They have nothing to spare.
Germans: If you use your artillery too much, you won't have the supplies you need for the end of the game. You will be out, and the French effort alluded to above can leave in with SERIOUS problems. When I play, I sometimes play without using the siege artillery unless a unit with a ZOC is in a fort. Saves a LOT of supply.
Martin Deighton
All the enthusiasm about Der Weltkrieg has been making me itch ... I've been thinking of getting hold of The Schlieffen Plan for a while, but I remember reading in Paper Wars that it was impossible to play solitaire. Why is this exactly?
Speaking as someone who's even played hidden movement games solitaire (and had a whale of a time with Vietnam 65-75 and Duel for Kharkov), I would hate to pass up the chance for another exercise in futility ...
Joshua Kimbril
The
Schlieffen Plan is an excellent game. I have played it three or four times;
all but one was a solitaire. So, I don't have any idea where Paper Wars is
coming from! I know there are a lot of messages, but, if you want to, go back
through them and you will see that quite a few of us have gone solo on it.
Its a great game! Give it a try! Its fun and I usually solitaire all my games,
so don't worry about that.
Walter
Zaagman
I agree with Joshua here, it's very playable solitaire. Give it a go!
Casey
Krakowski
I've heard that the French can basically take their whole army North and crush the German invasion. I've only played the game thru 4 turns, but cannot see how the German can counter this threat. Is there any errata keeping some of the Southern French armies in the South, or did I miss something here?
Walter
Zaagman
There's also nothing (apart from the French army of course ;-)) to stop the Germans switching at least some regular corps north. What the German could do (assuming you require the French to advance after combat in turn 4 - remember they must attack with a large part of their army then) is draw them in - which was the original plan, as scuppered by the Two Princes (Willie and Rupprecht) putting Honor before Obedience and attacking.
Dave
Schroeder
The French
moving north. - A good German player should be able to cause the French to
lose a LOT during the mandatory attack. The German can also move the reinforcements
to the north. My belief is that games should allow what was possible with
the given forces at the time. Joffre could have stripped the south to send
forces north even more than was done historically (though he was probably
pretty close to the limit). The Germans can do things to reinforce the right
wing as well (there are a lot of good ersatz divisions, the 7-5's that come
in early on). Or you can do what Walter suggests and attack with the 5th and
6th armies.
Walter
Zaagman
Actually, my suggestion was to give way to the turn 4 French attacks - if you follow my suggestion and make advance after combat mandatory for the French. Withdraw one hex and pull the French out of their defensive terrain. Remember many French units start behind rivers - even when retreating the German can inflict serious casualties, the French will often end up in less defensible terrain (backs to the river), and then the German can hit back. A good French tactic would be to place the units so that you can attack a hex from 2-3 sides. Gives the Germans a harder nut to crack as well.
Oh, and make sure your HQ's are out of reach of the enemy... I had two German divisions slip through and overrun 5th Army HQ. Who ever said solo gaming was boring?
Jack
Beckman
I realize this is old news to
the rest of you, but I was punching TSP today, and noticed that the fronts
and backs of the AH seige arty units are messed up. Were replacement counters
ever issued? If so, how do I get them? If not, will they be?
It's not the end of the world, but slightly annoying.
Dave Schroeder -
The replacement counters will be in the next game of the series, 'Tannenberg: Eagles in the East' which will be out in November. Sorry that I didn't get everything right the first time out. The pieces were the one thing that I didn't do by myself, and I have been kicking myself about it ever since.
I hope you like the game anyway.
Ed Mott-
The replacement counters are in the Tannenberg game
Joshua Kimbril
Now, I need a rule clarification. The terrain chart says that "If all attacking units are attacking across a river, then -2". Does this mean that ALL the units have to be physically attacking across the river? Or does it mean that when the defender chooses terrain and he can choose a river does it count for all the attacking troops? Thanks for enlightening me.
Dave Schroeder
The -2 for rivers is applicable only when ALL attacking units are attacking through river hexsides. It can be a combination of river and major river hexsides.
The benefit for major river hexsides (halve attacker, double counterattacker) is applicable only when ALL attacking units are attacking through major river hexsides. When using the major river hexside effect, you DO NOT get the -2 die roll adjustment (that is only for the case in the 1st paragraph above).
Keith Pardue
I started my first game of TSP last night with Matt Miller, whom I met a while back in the ASL folder and now live a few blocks from. We only had time to play two turns, but it does look like it has a nice clean basic system. We did have one strange event on the margins of the system though:
On the first turn, my German cavalry drove the Belgian cavalry away from Liege. On the second turn, taking advantage of the Belgians-near-Liege-must-retreat rule, I decided to have a reduced strength cavalry division do a column attack on Liege itself. But, the Belgians had no where to retreat to! A strict reading of the rules had my pathetic column attack causing the elimination of the garrison, but Matt made an argument that they should not have to retreat in this case. This being our first game together, I did my best to restrain my literalist impulse and appear to be a reasonable person (so that I can trap him later). So, I instead moved one of my units away from the fortress before the attack so that they would have a retreat rout and then proceeded with my suicidal sortie.
I look forward to getting into the meat of the game next time.
Joshua Kimbril
You
read right, the Belgians are forced to retreat (this rule simulates the Belgian
government's and military's desire to keep the army intact so as to make sure
their country could remain independent after the war). However, Walter (a
regular contributor) came up with the "homebrewed
rule" that the Belgian force inside Liege could say there if they
were surrounded. So, if you use his rule, it would be best for the Germans
to leave the Belgians and "escape route".
Dave Schroeder
I have had some problems with this too. In the new rulebook I rewrote it to be 'they must retreat IF POSSIBLE'. You can still force them out by a suicide attack, but they won't all get eliminated this way. This is how it is meant to be. The Belgian High Command wanted this unit to return to the 'concentration point' of the army. Only too late did the King and his trusted military advisor realize what had been done (orders to the 3rd ID). The Belgian 3rd ID really moved away from Liege when German forces made moves towards surrounding the city.
Galicia (Back To Top )
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Special Rules |
|
Mandated Attacks |
Ed Mott
What are the AH Pfanzer-Baltin Army counters used for? I cannot find them listed?
Dave
The AH army activated the Pflanzer-Balatin army in the area around Czernowitz in late late 1914. It would arrive as a reinforcement just after the time period covered by the combined game, so I put it in now rather than put it in a later counter sheet.
Ed Mott
Why is the Polish Legion a different color? Can it use AH/Polish replacements?
Dave
The Polish Legion is a different color because it is a Polish unit, not technically an AH unit. It cannot use AH replacements to be rebuilt. Later in the war there would be some replacements for it, but not much.
Ed Mott
Can AH units only recombine with similar “national” units? Does this include replacements?
Dave
AH units (and replacements) can only recombine with units of the same nationality. This is why the circle and number in the upper right hand corner are different colors for each nationality.
Ed Mott
The Hungarians do not receive any replacements. When do we use the two Hungarian Replacement divisions?
Dave
The Hungarians receive replacements. They are the 3-3 replacement
divisions. Most of them come in during the combined game.
John Vasilakos
Regarding the objectives for Galicia, do they ever go away for
the Russian side? This could be important in the combined Tannenberg/Galicia
game, especially after the Austrians are "released from thier pre war
plans with the fall of one objective.
Dave
Both the Austro-Hungarians and the Russians are released
from the 'pre-war planned' objectives at the end of the time period covered
by the Galicia game played on its own. After that time, in a combined game,
either force is totally free from these restrictions.
Christian Diedler
At least I hope you will understand, that I like to play the game as correct as possible and perhaps you find some ideas to improve your rules. One final note. The games you released so far are much history orientated, so there are lot of rules especially in Galicia (by the way it will be perhaps a good idea to mark the counters with army symbols to easily identify which unit belongs to which army). I personally would like to see less Special Rules (at the cost of historicity of cause) and have more options. For example in the grand campaign it should be possible to explore some options for example the Austrian attack Serbia with 3 armies and defend initially in the Carpats or Russia launches 3 armies against East Prussia or the French did not execute their Plan XVII at a cost of some VP, the Germans did not attack Belgium, defend in Alsace-Lorraine and send 2 or 3 armies to the East etc...
Dave
I do need to do better at optional rules. The game was originally designed to be played with all fronts for the entire war, so many of the scenario specific rules are last minute ideas to help put the game into smaller sections for sale and play.
In Galicia the rulebook says the Austrio-Hungarians must attack on the 6-7 turns of September. Shouldn't this be August?
YES
Tannenberg (Back To Top )
|
Special terrain rules for the peninsulas in the Baltic |
|
More Maps |
|
German Setup |
|
Entrain
Counters |
|
Detraining
Cost |
|
Rail Conversion |
|
Recombination |
|
Victory conditions |
|
Cavalry |
|
Out of Supply Rounding |
Ed Mott
Do you plan any special terrain rules for the peninsulas in the Baltic? Do they have the normal stacking capacity of a full hex? Hex 0908 would have a hard time with the 100,000 men of 6 divisions, 3 artillery brigades, an engineer regiment and an Army HQ. I fear some special rules may be needed.
Dave
The stacking rules for the peninsulas are not in the game because of the extreme remoteness of having units out there. For hexes with less than 3 adjacent land hexsides, the stacking limit is reduced. It is reduced by 1/3 for each hexside less than 3 adjacent land hexsides. So the peninsulas (the real skinny ones that go out into the Baltic) have a stacking limit of 2 divisions and 1 artillery unit per hex (they have two land hexsides, but they are not adjacent).
Ed Mott
We must have the map north of the Tannenberg map. I cannot plan an East First 1914 and drive on Riga without the maps. This is very upsetting to the Staff at GHQ!
Dave
The Riga map is a ways out. 1914 East Front first should probably be based on taking Warsaw. That was the first 'big' objective.
You say, that you plan a series for the whole of Europe. What about linking of maps ? Do you plan a whole new set or have I to cut the informational part of all maps to fit them together?
I am afraid you have to cut the informational part off of some of the maps to link them together. In many cases, though, the informational part will just be covered up by the adjacent map.
34.2 German Set-Up: Should read ...2x 2-4 Inf X: 69E, 70 Lw 1114.
This is correct, this was sort of implied by the setups above (see
the 8-5 and 5-5 setups).
Rules Questions: 7.3: In a former letter you promised me to produce “Entrain”-Counter, so as for marking that status. Do you forgot it or think now, that they are superflous?
I forgot to add them. I do need to do them in the next game. Of course it depends on how much space I have left for additional counters
7.7 and 33.15: 7.7 states, that units may stop from rail movement and resume normal movement at any time. But nowhere I found the cost for detraining, which are announced in rule 33.15 2nd sentence. Are there any costs for detraining in addition to the costs of entering the ZOC?
The detraining costs are just the loss of unused fractions of movement point. There is no specific ‘detraining’ cost. This is not well explained in 33.15.
The normal rail conversion rules are pretty simple. You had to start from a hex with an operative railline and all the hexes you move along are converted into the line. On the East Front you had to use all MP of the rail engineers to convert the hex. Must this unit come from an operative railhex in the Movement Phase before?
YES
Is it possible to convert a railhex, which is not adjacent to an operative railhex?
NO
I think the bulk of the German rail engineers will change from West to East as soon as possible for conversion purposes. Is that Historic ?
Pretty much. Keeping an engineer around for maintenance of rail lines is not in the rules (but maybe it should be). Right now you would keep a couple in the west to deal with damage if there was an enemy breakthrough.
Also big, deep pushes in enemy territory in the East are severely hampered if you like to be in supply. This accurately portrays the German problem with campaigns in the East.
Which color for purposes of recombination is decisive, the background as I presumed, or both background and background of the type symbols? Or otherwise may I recombine Austrians and Hungarians with the same full strength symbol?
The colored circle in the upper right hand corner of the counter must be the same for units that are combining. You cannot combine Austrian and Hungarian units.
What about a German favor of 26-49 VP´s, is that considered a draw?
YES
At exactly which time had these armies to chose about the objective? Is that decision made forever or may it be changed at any time?
If the army has two possible objectives, its subordinate units may move toward either objective. It is not a case of one or the other for all the units in the army. Units of the Russian 4th army could move toward either Przemysl OR Crackow.
37.29: I assume that the first sentence of these rules concerns only Polish and Czech cavalry units as defined in 37.5. What happens if they are attacked and stacked with proper Austrian or Hungarian cavalry, do the same rules apply as if they were stacked with infantry?
If the majority of the cavalry is Austrian or Hungarian, then the retreat would NOT be mandated. If the number of Polish and or Czech cavalry is the same (or greater) than the Austrian and or Hungarian, then the retreat would be mandated.
20 & 24 May Cavalry units, which are surrounded qualified for surrender as other units? If so, may they attack at full strength, because they are always considered to be in full supply or do they have under surrounding conditions only 1/4 of their strength.
All surrounded units (including cavalry) are effected by rule
section 20. The problem for cavalry
units is that when they are surrounded, they are out of fodder for the horses.
Cavalry units that are not surrounded still have a ‘path’ (called Line
of Communication in many other games) along which fodder could be moved forward.
24-2 The second sentence reads: "This applies even to Cavalry units stacked with non-cavalry units." May be me English is very bad, but this is not clear for me, can you please explain that to me. Case: 1. Infantry (without Cavalry) attacks Infantry + Cavalry 2. Infantry + Cavalry attack Cavalry 3. Infantry + Cavalry attack Infantry + Cavalry 4. Cavalry attacks Infantry + Cavalry Can you please explain me, in which cases the defending Cavalry has the option to retreat?
The cavalry could retreat under Case 1 only (there is no attacking cavalry).
Rules Questions 19-3 Are units, which are out of supply rounded down individually or are any fractions retained? Example: There are two OOS 5-4 units in the same hex. Do they have a combined strength of 4 (2+2) or 5 (2,5 +2,5) Points?
Fractions are generally rounded down.
This is implied by rule 19-13
21: Does Fortresses get terrain benefits in combat, i.e. are attacking artillery units halved, when the Fortress is located in an urban hex?
Good point. NO, the fortress does not get benefit of Urban terrain on its own. But, if there are units in the hex with the fortress in urban terrain, they would. So if an attack is anything but all artillery against only a fortress, the urban benefit DOES apply.
It
is the same for infantry or artillery.
The defender can choose the terrain depending on the direction of the
attack.
37-17: Must engineer units also move towards objective hexes? I think they should exempted as Cav and HQ´s.
The engineer units should also be exempt.
37-17: Where is the city of Cholm located (its not printed on map): as in pre-planed objectives (hex 3203) or in Victory Conditions (hex 3202)? On my opinion it should be located exactly between the river Bug and river Wieprz in hex 3103 !
Cholm is 3202. That is where the rail intersection is.
37-29: If the AH-Units had to retreat does it mean before or after combat?
After
combat.
38-2: What about the AH HQ Pflzr, when and where does it appear?
It
will be used in longer games. It does not appear in the period covered by the combined Tannenberg
and Galicia game.
43-9: I understand this rule as follows: you get 1 VP for every division which surrenders and ˝ VP per brigade / regiment. Should I accumulate these halfpoints separately or are they rounded up or down at the conclusion of a combat?
Accumulate this half points separately.
Shortly after the AH offensive the Russians took Stanislaw. Now all AH units are freed of their objectives (37-23) und fall back to the Carpathian Mountains or elsewhere (i.e. to objectives in Russia outside the 2-hex range of Russian HQ start hexes . The Russians quickly took Lemberg. Now for the majority of the Russian units (only some units choose Crackow) the objective for the rest of the game is Przemysl (37-19). I think the Russians must not attack immediately, but may wait until more units support the attack. The losses for the Russians were immense, nearly two armies were absorbed. But what happened to the shattered rest of the Russians ? May they now move unrestricted, may they stay in place or had the other fortress hex of Przemysl to be destroyed ? If units from 1st or 2nd Army enter Galicia-Map must they move towards Przemysl? I think the Russians are in disadvatage for attacking Przemysl at all costs.
Attacking the objective is not required.
Moving as close to it as possible is required.
The objective rules are only in force for the length of the Galicia
stand-alone scenario. The objective rules are not in force after the 4th
September turn. Unfortunately,
this is not clear enough.
Also, OPTIONAL RULE: Do not use rules 37-16 through 37-23. Armies and units in Galicia can do what they want.
| What's New? |
| WWI Rules |
| WWI Map |
| Corps Displays |
| Errata |
| FAQ |
| Counters/Corp |
| Play Aids |
| Replays |
| Scenarios |
| Player Directory |
Games |
| Schlieffen Plan |
| Tannenberg |
| Galicia |
| Serbia |
| Romania |
| Gorlice-Tarnow |
| Brusilov |
| Italy 1915-17 |
| Coming Soon |
| West Front 1915-18 |
| Salonika/Gallipoli |
| Palestine |
| Caucasus |
| July Crisis |
Mediterranean
WWI Naval |
North
Sea WWI Naval |
